Should I Buy A New or Used Car?

Executive Summary:

Don’t buy a new car!

In this show we analyze an article that suggests spending no more than 10% of your gross income on a car. For many people, 10% isn’t enough to buy a new car. Therefore, the math only allows for the purchase of a used car.

Does buying a used car make financial sense? What is the balance between old and new? While 10% is a simple rule of thumb, is it actually realistic for most people or just a pipe dream?

Dan and Tony both think the concept is great, but considering very few in our country actually follow the rule, there seems to be a disconnect.

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Podcast Transcript

Daniel Wendol 0:00
Don’t spend more than 10% of your income on a car. That’s the advice we will discuss on today’s show. And considering I own two cars on their way out of commission, I think this is a great time to talk about it.

Hello, and welcome to another dolphin financial radio with me Dan Wendol. Owner the Dolphin Financial Group. Back with me this week is Tony Shore. We missed you last week Tony, but you’re back and to celebrate your return. , we’re going to go and talk about an article that you brought to the table. How you doing, by the way?

Tony Shore 1:08
I’ve been good, you know, just dealing with family issues, as you know, but the wife and kids are doing great. Work’s going well. And I really can’t complain. Just busy, busy, busy, you know, and dealing with that.

Daniel Wendol 1:23
I’m sorry to interrupt, but while you were gone…you were gone because you were taking care of your parents. And we did a show on caring for our parents. So yeah, if you haven’t got a chance to listen to it, I suggest that.

Tony Shore 1:37
I actually did and it was actually right on the money of what I’m dealing with, with my mom and dad right now. So we had to put my mom into transitional care in a nursing home and assisted living facility. And with that $8,000 bill a month, figuring out how that’s going to get covered. Yeah, $8,000 a month and I know we’ve talked about this topic so much on the show. And that’s not what we’re going to talk about today. But we’ll have to see how this goes. I’ll probably have some more insight. We’ll have to do an update on that here in a few months.

Daniel Wendol 2:12
If you don’t mind sharing your personal you know, trials and tribulations.

Tony Shore 2:16
Yeah. No, it’s actually good. It’s cathartic, you know, to talk about it. I know, you’ve talked about yours on the show before healthcare issues and things. So, but today, I’m excited because, yeah, I know you’re in the market for a new vehicle. You were, we were late for recording because your car broke down. Right?

Daniel Wendol 2:40
In the past in the past. Not this time.

Tony Shore 2:43
Not this time.

Daniel Wendol 2:44
Yeah. What we’re gonna do, we’re going to revisit a show we did earlier this year called “Buy used retire early.” Remember that one? Yep. And I was touting the benefits of having a 13 year old vehicle.

Tony Shore 2:57
Yeah, you were. Let’s see how that’s going.

Daniel Wendol 2:59
Not so much anymore. My car broke down so I had to take it to the shop. And I borrowed my wife’s car that day and on the way home from work, I t-boned a guy on US19 that cut me off. Oh no. So my wife’s car has like four or $5,000 of damage on it. My neck hurts. So I think this is a perfect time to talk about buying a car.

Tony Shore 3:26
Oh no, I didn’t know about that accident Dan or your neck. Are you okay?

Daniel Wendol 3:31
Well, I’m, we’ll see. Eventually it will go away I would assume. Well, I’m hoping.

Unknown Speaker 3:38
I know you’re not Mr. Litigious, but I smell a lawsuit.

Daniel Wendol 3:43
That’s not my cup of tea. So you sent this article to me, knowing that it would get me riled up. Do you have the article in front of you? Can you read the title in your best radio voice?

Tony Shore 3:59
Oh, in my best radio voice?

Daniel Wendol 4:01
And this is a CNBC article by Sam Dozin of Financial Samurai or something like that? But I like the title.

Tony Shore 4:12
Yeah, it’s Sam Dogan, I believe it’s Dogan and yeah, he has basically a web presence he called a blog called Financial Samurai. But CNBC has a make it section which is really good. And this one is “never spend more than this much of your income on a car, says millionaire finance expert.”

Daniel Wendol 4:36
Alright, so the way I read that now, my dad being an English teacher, I think millionaire finance expert means he’s not a millionaire that’s a finance expert. I think that’s what it’s implying. But I think what he’s saying is, he’s an expert for millionaires.

Tony Shore 4:52
Yes, he’s an advisor to wealthy individuals. I actually think that’s what they mean. It’s not that’s a poorly worded headline?

Daniel Wendol 5:02
Yeah, well either way, never spend more than this much. So how much is this much Tony? drumroll.

Tony Shore 5:09
All right. You want me to say it? Are you gonna say it?

Daniel Wendol 5:14
It’s I’m going to say, Okay, well keeping the listeners on the hook. Because it’s kind of depressing because everyone’s gonna be like “what!?” No more than 10% of gross annual income. Boom. Mic drop. Yeah. Alright, so let’s get into this.

Tony Shore 5:34
Well that means if you make $42,000 a year, you can only spend $4,200 max on a car.

Daniel Wendol 5:44
Right and that’s not $4,200 a year on a car. It’s $4,200 on a new car. Total purchase. Yeah. Right.

Tony Shore 5:53
Right. So you’re buying used for sure at that point.

Daniel Wendol 5:57
Well….what are those little little tiny cars?

Tony Shore 6:02
Like a little Yaris or smart car they’re still more than money than that.

Daniel Wendol 6:08
The new new trend I’ve seen my sons are asking about the longboards.The long skateboards. Yep those are cheaper. How about…

Tony Shore 6:20
and more there as dangerous as a car. I’ve heard my son had a longboard.

Daniel Wendol 6:25
Oh yeah. Yeah, well it maybe I shouldn’t talk we are not talking about health insurance here.

Tony Shore 6:30
Yeah, that’s that’s another episode. The long board discussion.

Daniel Wendol 6:34
What about if you look down in the article, I don’t want to spoil it for everyone that wants to read it , but there’s an infograph that shows different cars you can get at different ranges. I see the word “moped” on there.

Tony Shore 6:43
Yeah, twice. Scooter, moped, city bus.

Daniel Wendol 6:48
Right. Right. Okay, so let’s get into this. So I so it is an interesting article, though, Tony. We did talk about how buying used can help you retire early. We did a whole show on that. I recommend anyone that hasn’t heard it go listen to that, because there’s some good tips on there, but this one is very specific. And it’s no more than 10% of gross annual income. And the theory is that people just they just spend too much too much money on cars right? And they don’t realize the total cost for owning a car.

Tony Shore 7:18
Nobody thinks about the total cost when they buy a car.

Daniel Wendol 7:21
Right they’re looking at the price tag. Oh, okay, this is this much and you know, but then again, like, do you, 10% of income, so even someone that’s on a $100,000 income – $10,000 for car? It just not it’s not you know, like, this is where it gets a little tricky. Like, what are we supposed to be buying here? Yeah, that’s the problem.

Tony Shore 7:47
Well, yeah, hundred, this according to this article, if you make between 100 and $200,000 in household income, that would be you and your spouse if you’re married or have a spouse. That would be mean you’d only be able to get either, the most you could get for new vehicles would be a Mazda 3 Toyota Yaris, one of those tiny little one, a Kia Rio, or a motorcycle.

Daniel Wendol 8:13
Motorcycle. Talk about you know, if you want to retire early, just get a motorcycle and drive on 19- you’ll be dead.

Tony Shore 8:23
Yeah, yeah, you would be. Yeah, that’s dangerous. So, yeah, when I saw motorcycle I’m like, well, that’s not a viable mode of transportation as far as day to day but some people do it. Depending on…

Daniel Wendol 8:34
My kids would like it. Go to soccer practice. Twins. Get a little sidecar.

Tony Shore 8:41
Dangerous, though. I love motorcycles as much as the next guy. But Wow. Yeah, you drive them in certain if you want to avoid certain areas. So anyway, this article, Dan, it’s crazy because a lot of people most people spend way more than that.

Daniel Wendol 8:58
Right. And the article points out the median income earners the average income earner, they that buy median price cars are essentially spending 80% of their gross salary. 80%.

Tony Shore 9:12

Daniel Wendol 9:14
Well think about it. You know, like so when so my wife’s minivan I was driving, that’s the one that got hit. That’s in the shop right now. So we had to rent a car. So I said, well, let’s just rent the equivalent so that you know, insurance and all that will cover it. So we rented the equivalent, which is a minivan I went to pick it up with my wife, and I show up and they said, “Oh, we don’t have a minivan.” And I’m like “Oh Geeze, now what?” And he’s like, we have a Tahoe and my wife’s like, “sure, we’ll take that.” And I’m like, what? I don’t even know what the Tahoe was right? And come to find out it’s a giant boat on wheels. And she says “we’ll take it” and he’s like, “oh, but it’s not clean. We have to clean it.” She’s like, “I’ll wait.” And I just looked at her. I’m like, you know something…what’s going on right now? I don’t know what’s going on. So I have a friend that runs a car auction, big one here in Pinellas County. And so I talked to him about cars. He’s a car guy. But he sees, he oversees the buying and selling of thousands of cars every week. And so he knows all these things. So I get a text from him a couple days later. “Hey, sorry about the car. I heard. I’m looking at Chevy Tahoe for you for your wife.” So the word got around the street that my wife wants a new car. And I said to him, out of curiosity, what are we looking at here? He’s like, probably at least $60,000. Yeah. I said, What about a used one? He’s like, maybe 40 if you don’t get all the bells and whistles and

Tony Shore 10:51

Daniel Wendol 10:52
I said what were what you know. So this is gonna be the most expensive accident I’ve ever never been in! So this idea of spending 10% of your income I mean, what? So let’s, I think that’s my big problem right now is no one’s doing that. I mean, I do it. I recommend it. But let’s talk about some of these other things. He says there are five different things that cost you besides the the sticker price. So this is somewhat useful. And I think this can be said about everything you know, you buy, but looking at a car in particular, the first thing that you have to look at besides the price is the maintenance. Insurance. People that buy a car, usually they usually finance it. So you have to pay for the interest. Sometimes they get a warranty, that kind of thing. So it’s not just about that sticker price. You got to pay the interest on the loan and also insurance and just gas, you know. So you buy a big car like that, like my wife’s all interested in this Tahoe. I’m sure it’s not a good on gas mileage.

Tony Shore 12:09
I know, it’s huge.

Daniel Wendol 12:15
I would say you you made out on gas mileage when you purchased your car.

Tony Shore 12:20
Yeah, I really did I have a Chevy Volt. So a lot of times I don’t I can go a month without using any gas.

Daniel Wendol 12:29
Pretty nice. So that that needs to be factored in. But I think most people understand that. One another factor that they’re suggesting why you don’t want to spend a lot is because the opportunity cost. #2- opportunity cost. Instead of putting $40,000 into a car, what if you put that into paying down some other debt or buying stocks or saving for college? Opportunity cost. Well, I needed car I needed something reliable? I don’t want to be driving around in the jalopy like you, Dan. Well, you know, but if that means you can’t save for your retirement, maybe you do. Now, I’m not talking about buying a box that’s going to collapse on you. But you know what I mean? Opportunity costs is big. I don’t think. I don’t think people factor that in as much as they should.

Tony Shore 13:26
Yeah, our maintenance. I mean, you do have to figure in maintenance and taxes, title and licensing, make sure that’s included in the price. I mean, there’s a lot to consider. And really, you need to try to keep all that within 10% of your income, but that’s going to be hard for most people to do. Especially if they want to buy new. I mean, I just think I think buying brand new cars is crazy. I mean, unless you have, you know, if you’re worth 100 million or more, maybe it’s no big deal. But if you’re worth let you know it your net worth is less than that or your yearly income is more of the average American you got to really watch it. And like we said in the past show like Dan, you pointed out you know why buy used when new will do? No. I mean why buy new and used will do? Obviously, you know, like the depreciation like you want to spend $60,000 on a Tahoe and you drive it off the lot, it’s worth $40,000.

Daniel Wendol 14:31
Yeah, the depreciation is immediate. Yep. As almost as bad as a boat. Not as bad as a boat though.

Tony Shore 14:40
Yeah, we can do a whole show on boat ownership and why you should avoid it. You don’t need a boat. You just need a friend with a boat.

Daniel Wendol 14:47
Ah, that’s right. But that’s it. If no one’s buying new cars then who’s gonna where you gonna buy a used car from?

Tony Shore 14:53
That’s true. You and I are relying on all the crazies who run out and buy a new car they can’t afford. Then they realize it and because of guilt, they trade it in on something more realistic or can’t afford the payments. And then we buy it for $20,000 less.

Daniel Wendol 15:10
You said guilt. That was one of the things…one of the reasons one of the five reasons this guy suggesting not to buy a new car. Guilt, the guilt that you you really couldn’t afford it in the beginning, when you should have been saving for the kids return college or your own retirement.

Tony Shore 15:26
Right. There’s a there’s a honeymoon phase where you’re loving life because you’ve got this new vehicle, even if it’s used, it’s new to you and you’re excited about it. But after that wears off, which for some people is a few weeks for some people, it might be a couple of months, but it’s the guilt is going to start creeping in after a month. I bet. Typically.

Daniel Wendol 15:46
I think that’s a good thing to point out another one that he points out, which I find very interesting because not many people talk about it, but it well I’ll just say what it is – he said you’ll have a lot more stress about it. When you spend more than 10% of your income on a car, your stress levels increase, because some of the examples he uses, like when you go to Publix and you park in parking lot, you’re afraid someone’s gonna dig it so you’re park far away. Or, you know if it gets a scratch on it you’re going to harp about and be all upset, you know? But scratches happen all the time. You know? Yep. So now you’re going to be all stressed about your car instead of just like I do. I don’t care if someone hits my car. I’m hoping someone crashes into my car when I’m not in it. Maybe. Maybe I get a new one. But even then, what am I going to do? I want to buy a new 10 year old car. But I don’t stress about my car. I don’t and but some people really get into it. My wife yells at me all the time. Why don’t you worry about your car? You know, aren’t you stressed about it? I don’t like the sounds it makes. I know all the sounds. It’s like I humming like a kitten purring like a kitten. Not really. It’s like a kitten that’s carrying a bag of bolts and nuts around. You know, or tied to its tail, you know, but I know those noises but you know, so people stress about cars. That’s something that I never thought about before, but I found interesting.

Tony Shore 17:09
Yeah, that’s true. The article mentioned that and I hadn’t thought about it, but it’s true. It’s true. When I first got my Volt I was really super super paranoid. And that was always on my mind.

Daniel Wendol 17:20
That everyone’s gonna make fun of you?

Tony Shore 17:22
No, actually, it’s really only you that does that Dan. Oh, and everyone I work with, but besides that,

Daniel Wendol 17:31
But you can sneak up on them in the parking lot while in the car and they won’t hear it. Yeah, because you can’t hear that thing. That’s the least. That’s what I don’t like about your car the most is you can’t hear it if it’s on. I’d be cranking the engine over and over.

Tony Shore 17:42
I love I love that. I love the fact that I can drive around and it’s silent. It’s awesome. So um, yeah, and I love the money in my pocket too. And driving by you, while I see you filling up that Tahoe at the gas station.

Daniel Wendol 17:56
Well, yeah, well, America, you know, battery. Yeah, your battery is gonna need to be replaced and that’s gonna be like 80 grand.

Tony Shore 18:04
You know what, that’s what my Dad always says too. You don’t want to buy electric car because the batteries replaced. Guess what? The batteries warrantied for life so….

Daniel Wendol 18:12
Until that car company goes out of business.

Tony Shore 18:15
GM General Motors?

Daniel Wendol 18:17
America. All right. Here’s another question. Tony here’s another. Did you read this fourth, this fourth thing that the guy said was about? You may want to spend even more money on your car. Did you read that little paragraph? When you get a nicer car, you’re going to be tempted to get other…

Tony Shore 18:35
Yeah, yeah, you’re gonna you may want to spend even more money on your car after you buy it. Right.

Daniel Wendol 18:40
Right. And the example here….

Tony Shore 18:46
Get ready this listeners because this is a classic.

Daniel Wendol 18:49
Maybe I’m the one out of touch here, but I thought this was very funny. I actually didn’t understand it. I had to re-read it. All right, here it goes. You might consider getting some nice driving shoes, for example, or a matching chronometer watch for your sports vehicle. What are driving shoes?

Tony Shore 19:09
You might consider getting some nice driving shoes for example. What!?

Daniel Wendol 19:14
What is a driving shoe?

Tony Shore 19:20
I’ve heard of driving gloves but never driving shoes. I’ve never seen somebody pull up in a car and take off their shoes leaving them in that car and putting on regular tennis shoes and then go into an establishment. So I don’t know driving shoes are really a thing.

Daniel Wendol 19:39
I’m looking up driving shoes now. It looks like there are driving shoes for men and driving shoes for women

Tony Shore 19:45
Driving shoes! That can’t be a real thing.

Daniel Wendol 19:48
Yeah, men’s drivers shoes and loafers at Macy’s. Driving shoes, racing shoes and apparel. I mean the best driving shoes reviewed. The rules for wearing driving shoes, GQ magazine 2016 article. Yeah, I’m not going to read that. So,

Tony Shore 20:08
So there’s a there’s a company called Akin. AKIN. It’s akingear.com it’s an entire site- driving sneakers -shop now.

Daniel Wendol 20:20
What? It is just like fancy rubber that doesn’t slip off the brake pad or something brake pedal.

Tony Shore 20:28
Shift driving sneaker. A sneaker that’s made for it’s supposed to be good for shifting in a car.

Daniel Wendol 20:36
All right. So that seems a bit outrageous and..

Tony Shore 20:39
It is outrageous and these shoes are these shoes are you know they’re $85 – $100 each. I mean why not?

Daniel Wendol 20:46
What shoes aren’t though? I mean, but then again so here’s the deal. Further on that paragraph he deals you some more down to earth examples like people that drive a fancy car, they start to pay $25 for the valet because they want to be seen getting in and out of their car. So I think the point of that little section was that people, if you buy a fancy car and now you’re now you’re living the fancy life, so you’re keeping up with the Joneses type thing. And you’re going to spend more on the fancy stuff. Eextra for the car racks and that stuff.

Tony Shore 21:17
They’re going to go out and buy a matching watch?

Daniel Wendol 21:21
That’s just ridiculous the shoes and watch…that’s whatmy made me laugh. I think watches are coming back. I don’t have a watch. I used to have a watch. But if I’m going to buy a fancy car for $80,000 I don’t think I’m going to care if I buy an extrach watch. Right? So, but I think it’s more about the trend, not the trend, but the the problem of falling into that keeping up with the Joneses. Maintaining that fancy looking lifestyle. And that’s something to watch out for. I guess. Some people like it. I mean, everyone can do this. It’s not like I’m shaming people that buy fancy cars but the point being this article is saying spend 10% because of these types of things, and that is something to consider. Yeah, I think you got a question. Why am I doing this? Why am I buying this fancy car?

Tony Shore 22:10
Yeah. And it says never spend more than 10% of your gross income on a car. And the in the, you know, why, why you’ll regret not doing that and why you regret paying more for your car. One thing, you know, maintenance willeat up, like you said, and number two opportunity cost, that money that you’re that extra money you’re spending on payments each month, you could be putting into, you know, your 401k or an IRA or, you know, working with somebody like yourself, Dan, a financial advisor, and you could be investing it for them and then you’d be taking advantage of compound interest and you know, making money on your money. So you’re that’s opportunity that’s lost, you’re going to lose a lot more than just the price of the car and the monthly payment because that money could be growing for you right?

Daniel Wendol 23:00
That’s right. That’s the idea. And think of all the driving shoes I can buy because I drive a 15 year old vehicle. Fancy driving shoes in my car, my Honda Pilot. So we talked. So what happens now that people have done it because everyone’s done it? I think most people listening probably spent more than 10% of their gross income on a car. Right? I mean if we’re being real.

Tony Shore 23:24
Yeah, I bet 95% of people do that.

Daniel Wendol 23:27
Right. So, you know, so you have to buy used. That’s the key. But what if you’ve already bought a car? What do you do now? Do you sell it? Or do you do what I do, which is I’m just gonna drive it in the ground. You know, not intentionally, but I’m going to run it till I can’t run anymore.

Tony Shore 23:45
Yeah, if you overspend on a car, there’s an you know, you have a number of options and like it says in the article, that’s a good point. He said he made that same point where if you but one thing you can do is drive it long enough so it is of value, you know. If you drive it long enough and it lasts long enough, then it will be, then you won’t have new car payments, you maybe can get it paid off. However, or you can sell it. That’s another option if you make if you feel you’ve made a mistake and you feel guilty, I spent way too much on a car shouldn’t have done this, you know, take a bit of a loss right now sell it to save on that monthly income. But like you I say you got to do the math, what mathematically is going to save you the most money over the long term.

Daniel Wendol 24:31
Rght you got and you don’t want to fall victim to the sunk cost fallacy, which we did a show on. Oh, I’ve already spent so much money on I might as well just keep throwing more money at it.

Tony Shore 24:39
Yeah, no, that’s never that’s usually never the answer.

Daniel Wendol 24:43
But the reverse can happen. I can start throwing money into this old Honda. And I’m like, why don’t I just buy a new used car instead of throwing more money to fix this old thing up? Right? So it’s always a game. It’s always a battle. It’s a financial decision. People have to make. You have to think about it. You can’t just go willy nilly right? But I, you know, I don’t know about 10%. I think i think that seems low. Because you’re right, you know, because I’m looking at the the recommendations 10%. So if you’re, if you’re in the $25,000 to $50,000 range, you’re buying a six to 10 year old used economy vehicle or a scooter. I love the fact that scooter gets compared to those.

Tony Shore 25:27
Yeah, yeah, you have to you if there is if you make it too little money, they’re saying scooter, it’s like, wow, that’s, that doesn’t sound like a good option.

Daniel Wendol 25:37
No, just hope it doesn’t rain. You know, my friend, that’s the that’s into cars, he was suggesting that the trend now is people don’t even own cars anymore. That’s going to be the way of the future. It’s going to be all, you know, rental or like subscription. Like Uber, you know, but the biggest expense for Uber is the drivers. So if we get autonomous vehicles, maybe people won’t even have any vehicle anymore. And they’ll just, you know, they’ll just get in a car and take them where they want to go.

Tony Shore 26:07
Yeah, they say the future that’s coming at some point, you know, it could be another, you know, 50 or hundred years before technology is really there or it could be, you know, five years from now.

Daniel Wendol 26:19
I think it’ll be in our lifetime that there’s autonomous cars going around.

Tony Shore 26:22
I think so too. They’re working hard on it. And a lot of the biggest a lot of money’s being thrown at it. I mean, if you look at all all the companies that have worked on it, Google, Apple, Tesla, all these different companies throwing money at that thing.

Daniel Wendol 26:39
Well, you think about it, think about how much people are spending on cars. If your spending $40,000 on a car…if you spread that out, through Uber or whatever, you know, the alternative, there’s money to be had in that industry for sure. I wonder if I did that if they charge me extra when I take my kids home from soccer practice because they stink. The cleats smell like gross. If I had to pay a cleaning fee. The next person getting in an autonomous car be like what was in here?

Tony Shore 27:08
I love how your mind works, Dan, because most people would never even think about that aspect of it. But you’re like, well wait, my kids stink. What if they get in this, I have a subscription service, and they get in their ride, the vehicle comes to pick them up from soccer practice and they all pile in, and they’re sweaty and stinky and they get mud all over because of their cleats. And they’re loud and noisy and you know, there’s going to be a fee for that. Yeah. That’s so funny here. You’re like, okay, hidden fees. Right as the financial advisor you’re always looking for the hidden fees. Yeah.

Daniel Wendol 27:34
There’s maybe there’s a service there. Maybe that you know, cleaning service. Alright, so let’s, let’s wrap up because I think people get the point. Well, 10% seems low. I mean, it would be nice though. Because if you think about it, you save $6,000 bucks in a year in a car that that goes into an IRA and compounds for 20 years, you know, you’re, you’re well on your way to starting to save for retirement right. Oh, yeah. So every little bit counts. I love the fact that this has been said because everything else is excess, you know. Oh, buy the fancy car. You know, this is counterintuitive, not counterintuitive, but Counter Culture counter to that fancy car. Keeping up with the Joneses stuff. I like it.

Tony Shore 28:26
Yeah, the conventional thought is, yeah, you need a new car. We need to you know, you gotta buy, you gotta keep you want some really nice, you know, and so, you gotta really look at your finances, obviously. Well, this has been a great discussion. Dan, why don’t you let our listeners know…you’d be willing to sit down and look at their finances and, you know, help them figure out what they can and can’t afford. And to get their ducks in a row. How do they do that?

Daniel Wendol 28:54
Yeah, if you want, we’ll talk about budgeting for vehicles. That’s a big thing for retirees. I want a reliable car. No one wants an unreliable car in retirement, you know, they don’t want that hassle. So buying new seems like the answer but probably not. Some used cars that are reliable. Save some money right? Yeah, so if anyone wants to talk about that easily give me a call 888-508-5935 if you have any questions about driving shoes direct those towards Tony. But Tony, thanks thanks welcome back. Thanks for show and yeah, we’re gonna have to catch up and talk about that other stuff about your parents and everything I think starting to hit home so thanks again though Tony for a good show. Thanks listeners for another Dolphin Financial Radio with us.

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